Wednesday, June 23

Do you think Patrick Chan is overhyped? He has skating skills, but not "omg he's the best ever" as some are proclaiming. He has no individual style nor does he skate w/ passion like a Kwan or Lambiel, he seems to skate to get points for elements sometim

Your full question/statement got cut off. I think Chan and his team know how to work the system and I think he's judged pretty fair. Do I get that intensity about him that I get with some of the other skaters? No. Johnny Weir said during the World Championship broadcast that he thinks everything is a little "put on" with him, and there's nothing that feels like it comes from within. I can totally see where Johnny is coming from, but as long as the difficult choreography and transitions are there, he can't really be held down on any of the components.

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11 comments:

Meri said...

Re: Chan's PCS - wouldn't you say that's part of the problem with the judging? I mean, a skater can have amazing TR and strong choreography, but show weaker IN or performance skills, and if that's the case, the marks should reflect it. Same goes for skaters who are good performers but weaker in other areas.

This also ties in to your post about overrated/underrated skaters, because I absolutely agree that Chan should beat Joubert's TR score, but if marked correctly, Brian has to be well ahead on P&E when he's on. And Florent Amodio should start getting better marks, absolutely!

Anonymous said...

Thx Tony, what I wanted to finish saying was that Chan seems to work the system like you said, and while that gets him on the podium it does little to promote the excitement and beauty of the sport. I totally agree with Johnny about Chan, as a viewer I see no passion or even a snippet of personality in his skating. If he's the future of FS, then FS is doomed!

Anonymous said...

I'm one of those who can watch Patrick Chan skate for hours and be entranced. A skator can reach out to the spectators (some do it by hip thusts and finger pointing while running on toe picks), or he can draw them into the performance like Chan often does. Chan can do so much that others can't so how can he be described as having no individual style? His skating is lyrical yet with effortless speed and freedom like no others. There are plenty of inherent risks in his footworks and transitions - the way he throws himself around with abandonment, the way he enters into his jumps, the way his momentum can be lost by any mistake to bring down subsequent elements, and the way he can easily fall behind the music with the slightest stumble as there is no room to make up for time, unlike programs filled with long glides. To do all these and still be so musical with articulate interpretation, I think it's awsome. Yet his 30-second level 4 footwork sequence is worth less than the easiest triple jump,the 3T, all 2 seconds of it.

He usually wins with his TES marks which are largely objective and binding on the judges. Contrary to all the griping, he's often undermarked on the PCS, the obvious example being the 2009 Worlds SP. Joubert and Plushenko are the ones consistently gifted with PCS.

If quads are the determinging factor, Kevin Reynolds should be the current world champion. Johnny Weir has personal bias against Chan and he should realize it's just much easier to be clean and expressive with a simple program. His programs are great for shows but not technical enough to win a major competition. He shouldn't take things out on Chan.

Chan earns all his marks in all the international competitions he partakes in, with difficult programs and jumps. There are individual preferences in style but it's nonsense to call him robotic and styleless. I, among many, find his skating breathtakingly beautiful most of the time. Then again, I would watch Chan and Lambiel over Joubert and Plushenko any time.

Can't wait to see his new SP, which is supposed to be reflective of his goofy personality like his new show program. When he reaches out to the spectactors, with "personaility", detractors will surely find some new ways to deride him as unworthy and hyped.

Anonymous said...

Chan knows how to milk the PCS for all its worth. He's kinda like Joubert except with Joubert it's all about milking scores for jumps. Does that make Chan a great skater? Yeah, if the goal is to get on the podium. I've yet to see a Chan program that would withstand the test of time.

Unlike these skaters and some of their iconic programs: Yagudin- Winter, Takahashi-Techno Swan Lake, Lambiel- Four Seasons & Flamenco, Chan is lacking in memorably inventive programs. Hell, he even nicked a large chunk of Four Seasons choreography from Lambiel (or his choreographer did). Anyways, the aforementioned programs are looked upon as gold standards of technique (skating skills & jumps), innovative choreography, beauty, and passion/ personality.

For me, when a skater can transcend a competitive program and bring the audience along with him to share in his self-expressions on ice, that is when a skater achieves greatness. Chan is not there yet.

Maybe it's impossible for Chan to express feelings on ice other than "goofiness" because he can't be dramatic like Takahashi or soulfully expressive like Lambiel. It's a stretch for diehard Chan supporters to equate his programs/ style (or lack thereof) with the other greats at this stage. He may develop his own style yet but for some to bestow greatness upon him is laughable.

About Weir and Joubert, they should both retire already. Joubert is the most overhyped skater ever, I don't know why anyone would pay $$$ to see him skate in shows. Weir, for all his talk about how deep and meaningful his programs are, shows us the same sparsely choreographed, introverted programs time after time.

Anonymous said...

Whoa Anonymous #4. If I were Patrick, I wouldn't know to be flattered or pressured! At 19, only third trip to the Worlds in the year of injury with an unseasoned program, the kid is required to achieve and judged by the standard set by the greatest at their peak?!!!!

Patrick is still developing, adding new skills and exploring new artistry every year. Yes, he's definitely not there yet. Just imagine when he gets there!

Anonymous said...

Umm, overhyped meaning over-promoted/ extolled by his fans and supporters who think Chan is already one of the greats, that's the whole point of my post. If they want to compare him to iconic skaters, then they should expect critique in their judgments. I'm not comparing Chan to the likes of Yagudin, Takahashi, Browning, and Lambiel, Chan's supporters are. That's why I think he's OVERHYPED.

Anonymous said...

Milking the system for all its worth? That's called following the rules, working within the perimeters, fulfilling requirements. That's what skaters are supposed do to compete. The rules and requirements are the same and spelled out for all competitors. If a competitor chooses not to or is unable to maximize the scoring, it's not the fault of higher scoring competitors. Rework your program and/or up your skills but stop whining and accusing others.

Artistic tastes are different for different people. No need to bash someone whose style you don't care for. Or despise their supporters.

Ummm. Just notice the justification of judging Chan's supporters for comparing him to The Greats, by the only one here who made the comparison.

Anonymous said...

I love Patrick!!

Anonymous said...

Go on Canadian skating forums and you'll see how such comparisons to the greats are made by his worshipful fans. No wonder Chan has gotten himself an ego, and said things he shouldn't have said. When you have supporters who think you are already The One, it's hard not to buy into the hype yourself.

mikeko said...

Lambiel has expressed his dismay at the ISU judging system: “There are many skaters who know nothing about their music, but simply display the items. That makes me angry. I think if one has no feeling for the music, you can not be a figure skater. But the judges often look only at the details and do not know where it really counts.”
http://www.nzz.ch/nachrichten/wissenschaft/stephane_lambiel_eiskunstlaufen_1.689813.html

Certainly there are formulas to cleverly collect PCS in the current scoring system, and choreographers like Lori Nichol know them well. Chan keeps moving really busy, like a buzzing honey bee, from the beginning to the end of his program just as choreographed. While he has skills, they are never transformed into true art as Lambiel or Takahashi’s.

You can easily see the difference between a clean but formulistic performance and a truly artistic performance by comparing Chan and Takahashi’s SP at the Worlds because they both skated to tangos. If you watch Chan’s performance with audio off, you will not know that the music is actually tango. He looks just too busy trying to collect points as many as possible to interpret the music or pay attention to the audience. When you watch Takahashi’s performance in silence, you still hear the music, feel its rhythm and groove. He seduces the audience expressing eroticism and decadence of the tango even in a competition.
Such a difference looks rather subtle if judges do not have an ear for music but can be felt huge enough for those who love and care about music if they are figure skating experts or not.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous #5, I'm really sick of your “But he is still 19…” thing, and I think his being 19 is the problem.
Because THAT high scores he was given for THAT performance with many mistakes (in Olys, especially) are usually accepted only for a skater who is already one of the greats, world champion for several times, and near retirement.
But he is still 19. So how many years do people have to see him like this?
It’s almost a curse when he already looks old, with no passion nor challenger’s spirit, seems to repeat the same repertoire forever to keep the high scores he has already had.