Tuesday, August 3

What was so bad about Inman's letter? Is what he said much different than Joubert or Plushenko rallying for the quad?

Inman didn't say anything except questioning how judges should reply to/mark a skater who is flat-out saying that he doesn't have any transitions. As I've written elsewhere, Plushenko dragged Joubert into this all by himself.

Ask me a question about figure skating!


maria said...

Plushenko never give this interview to "Absolute skating"!

... there was only a press conference in Bratislava on the occasion of the upcoming "Kings on Ice" show tour, at which was attended over 30 journalists, and none of them not quoted such Plushenko's statement from there, except the journalist Titanilla Bőd, who was even declared this joint conference for the interview! ..... so much about the professionalism of the journalists, not to mention "professionalism" of judge, who based his claims in letter on non-existing unauthorized "interview" :-(

Tony said...

So are you saying that Plushenko never said anything about his transitions? Wouldn't you think he would step up and blame Absolute Skating and/or any other website that might have published the same quote in a different language for misinterpretation? He didn't say anything about it.

caseyedwards said...

Plushenko said he didn't have any transitions but he obviously does some stuff between jumps or spins and you can see he does stuff. that is what is being graded by judges - it was wrong for inman a repsected judge to send this out right before the olympics. it was so unfair and lobbying

Tony said...

When did you want him to send it? The article went up after Europeans, yes? Last time I checked there's not much going on between Europeans and and the Olympics. Maybe Plushenko should have waited until AFTER the Olympics to make such comments, hmm?

I've already discussed my thoughts on FSUniverse with you Casey, so I'm not going to repeat myself. However, if Plushenko is admitting he doesn't have much (if anything) himself, why do people find the need to try to defend him? He sunk his ship, and Inman read the article on a more obscure website (Absolute Skating) and then sent it to his judging and other skating friends. It wasn't lobbying. He never said for ANYONE to mark him lower. He asked how a skater is supposed to be judged if they are saying they don't have transitions. You have to get that story straight before you make such allegations.

For the record, I would have loved to see Evgeny win the Olympics again as I prefer him slightly to Lysacek, but I'm pretty comfortable saying that his effort as far as complex choreography or transitions is very, very poor.

maria said...

I watched Slovakian tv news and read newspapers from this press conference, and as I said - no other journalist has not passed such Plushenko's quote - I talking about this part:
"In fact, we don’t have any transitions because we focus on our jumps."

... just a similar sentence, which is before it:
"Brian Joubert got more points for his transitions than me, although we did exactly the same transitions on the ice."

Here is his very similar interview on russian, who he gave a few days later - there is translation to english (third question):

Plushenko NEVER said that he and Joubert don't have ANY transition! Closest to the statement is from few interviews, where he said that "he and Joubert have LESS transition than other skaters, because they two are preparing for harder jumps than others."

Why Plushenko never denied this "interview" for AS?
I personally think, that he has a very bad PR team which working for him, so to speak - not existing! :-(

Tony said...

OK, so the problem here would lie solely with the Absolute Skating team and the specific transcriber. Over the years, they have maintained plenty of official websites and done great interviews with some skaters, so it's not like Inman would think this statement was something made up or twisted around.

However, I do find it funny (if there was indeed a translation error) that the same girl went on to interview Brian Joubert recently, and she used her original "quote" from Plushenko to ask Brian what he thought about Joe Inman going after them for their lack of transitions. Isn't it ironic that if she hadn't posted Plushenko's interview, it's almost sure that none of this would have happened in the first place?

Tony said...

Another quick thought. Since that interview you linked me to is on a Plushenko-specific website, do you think that they might have changed the words around, knowing that putting up comments like saying he has no transitions would start drama? Unless anyone was specifically in attendance for this press conference, I guess we can't know for sure..

maria said...

I'm sorry, I initially not noticed your answer, Tony...
He has 60 friends among the judges? :-P

"Inman read the article on a more obscure website (Absolute Skating) and then sent it to his judging and other skating friends. It wasn't lobbying. He never said for ANYONE to mark him lower. He asked how a skater is supposed to be judged if they are saying they don't have transitions."

The reference to a statement given maybe in humorous tone (after all, it was not an official press conference after the European Championships), even that is true - but I am very suspicious about that ... is ridiculous - why then Ingman did not ask that Plushenko get ZERO for skating between the jumps?!

Why do I defend him? Because I love his skating, risk and passion which he brings to it... because I did not liked harangue against him in the North American media during and after the Olympics ... because I like to win justice ... and because I like fairy tales with a happy end ... enough? ;-)

P.S. download video with his russian interview, and convince yourself.
Bad prejudice is not good, especially for someone who engages in sports journalism - why you not have same prejudice against AB? :-(

Tony said...

I've been sent a copy of the e-mail, and most of the people in the list of recipients are involved in the sport as judges or part of the USFS, etc.

If the reference was humorous and/or he didn't say it to begin with, then you need to send your hate mail to Absolute Skating.

Like I said before, I would have much rather seen Plushenko win over Lysacek. But with the way things went, I have no problem with Lysacek just narrowly winning. I'm American, but it doesn't mean I solely favor the American skaters. Most of the time, it seems to be much the opposite, actually.

Who is AB? Absolute Skating?

maria said...

I've been sent a copy of the e-mail, ...

This mail will remain "secret" for FS fans?

If the reference was humorous and/or he didn't say it to begin with, then you need to send your hate mail to Absolute Skating.

You do not know what hate is, if you not read the reaction of the "non informed" people to Plushenko, after such propaganda against him in N/A media. :-(

Journalists are there to lie, the judges are there to be honest.

Who is AB? Absolute Skating?

Yes - my mistake

Anonymous said...

Since you got the e-mail too, maybe you know, does it happen often that mails fly off private servers?
It is fine to have a conversation with other judges about a skater, what is not fine is for the e-mail to go around Media, I cannot get how simple was that and ok for most. It went out for a reason (which I do not get). Have they thought how a distraction and punch in the preparation of these two athletes the whole media wave about it was?

Tony said...

Maria- the contents of the e-mail, if I recall correctly, was reproduced by L'Equipe when the "scandal" first broke. It's not like it was ever anything secret. I just happen to have seen the list of recipients. I'm pretty sure that Inman probably just had a saved list of "skating friends" that he quickly sent the e-mail to.

I think what happened is someone in the list (most likely from France) saw Plushenko's dragging Joubert in (whether the Absolute Skating interview was correct or not) and then contacted the newspaper to stir something up before the Olympics. Remember, it was French media that outed the whole story, not Russia.

If there is a problem with the media outing the mail, then you have to contact L'Equipe and share your frustrations.

Anonymous said...

Oh, Tony. If you really can't discern the difference b/n skaters like Plushenko and Joubert rallying for the quad, and someone like Inman e-mailing judges saying they have no transitions, regardless of whether they reaffirmed that statement themselves or not, you really need to think a little harder.

Tony said...

Again, show me where Inman suggested that they didn't. He asked what does it mean when someone says they don't have transitions?

Some people are acting like he sent out an e-mail saying the following:

"OMG. Plushenko just said he had no transitions. Now since I'm North American, we all have perfect reason to mark him way down on that component and assure that he won't win a gold medal!!! Yay!!!"

By the way, I'm the last person that needs to be told about the judging sometimes being corrupted or not honest. I did the interview with Ibens and the ISU was hardly pleased with it, as I heard from some people in attendance at Junior Worlds (which was right after I put the interview up). If I think there is corruption or wrong-doing, I'll be the first to call it out. Here, there was nothing of the type. Sorry.

maria said...

the contents of the e-mail, if I recall correctly, was reproduced by L'Equipe when the "scandal" first broke.

... If there is a problem with the media outing the mail, then you have to contact L'Equipe and share your frustrations.

And, Ingman is a "correspondent" from Europe - other judges do not read French newspapers or AP?

I have nothing against publishing the letter - on the contrary! I believe that the publication announced and explained some of the events at the Olympics, which will remain otherwise secret for us, "simple mortals"

mm said...

Hi Tony,

It has been so sincere of you to continue to explain the facts and share your first hand experience. I can read your love for the sport in-between the lines.

But you should not waste your time any longer. Some people have already made their mind up and they won't hear or see anything but what they have already decided to hear or see. Those do not need facts and proofs; they are in search for affirmation and confirmation of their own interpretation of the event only. There's no point in talking to them.

Anyway, truly enjoying reading your posts. Great job. Looking forward to the next one.

Anonymous said...

I must assume that transitions cannot be visible to the naked eye - or it would not matter one way or another if a skater says that he has no transitions; or am I to understand that if Plushenko had instead chosen to say that he has the most complex, difficult translations in the history of figure skating - that Inman would have felt compelled to mail all his friends with this information as well? Should it matter at all what a skater says? Surely the judges should be able to see - and - you know - judge?


Tony said...

Thanks, mm. You are exactly right.

LRK- I think you follow skating close enough to know that there are some judges that don't quite know what they are doing! The whole corridor is a really big issue a judge shouldn't feel they have to mark a skater within a certain range just because of their name or based on the particular skate being good or bad (and skate order itself).

I see where it was curious that Inman chose to quote what Plushenko said, but I also don't see where he was telling anyone to judge any different than they already were. If Plushenko really did have strong transitions, there would have been plenty of arguments with examples that showed Inman didn't know what he was talking about and/or Plushenko must have been misquoted in the first place. Yet all I see is people screaming North American bloc and politics out of it.

Anonymous said...

I just can't believe that you are choosing not to see any problems with Inman sending out an email that mentions Plushenko having no transitions to judges right before the Olympics. That is just a wall that is blocking all possible communication on this issue. People do not care when Inman sent the email. It just doesn't matter to them when.

Anonymous said...

I remember Johnny Weir referred this Inman's letter before the Vancouver Olympics.He described it as unfair and disgraceBEFORE THE OLYMPIC COMPETITION . Plushenko did not mention the word "transition" first. The North-American media asked Plushenko why he does not have "transitions". He replied that he had no transitions in his program. You need to read the article rightly.

Tony said...

Seems to me like one person says he did say something, the next says he never said it, one person says that it came from so-and-so originally, the next now says it came from the North American media. Does anyone know exactly how it went down? Because in these reply comments alone, there's been plenty of opposing stories.

Anonymous said...

Maria is right, Plushenko talked several times about the Euro Champ saying that Brian Joubert received higher marks even they do the same stuff, but in none of his official interviews or press conferences appears such a statement, that they don´t have transitions. Maybe it was a joke, Plushenko likes to joke a lot, maybe a bad translation, maybe he ment something else. Plushenko and Mishin didn´t pay too much attention to the story until Vancouver, when Plushenko received those low marks in transitions.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, but Lambiel has lots of transitions in his program. Then, why did his LP not outscore Plushy's by a big margin? Of course, Lambiel made other mistakes. In 2010 worlds, Chan was placed higher than Joubert in the pretext of "transition" despite his blatant jump mistakes by a big margin. What's the difference between the two competitions?

Also Brian Jouert after SP made a complaint why Plushenko's score is higher than his, although his spins are are more speedy and difficult.

It didn't seem that 2010 Euro scored "skating skills" based on "transition". During a month, ISU changed their method on how to score "Transition".

Anonymous said...

In my opinion, it is unfair to score "skating skills" based on "transition". I don't think skaters must skate like Jeremy Abbot, Addam Rippon, Nobunari Oda- who usually have lots of transitions. Transition make the entire program sloppy and messy. It is not a matter of "skill" but "style".

Anonymous said...

The problem is that a lot of skaters have very ugly transitions, some of them are really ridiculous, what´s the point to fill the program with some cheap choreography? I´ve seen skaters with "kung fu moves" skating on classical music,awful!

Anonymous said...

Even so, all skaters should imitate Rippon's or Abbot's style. To me, skaters' programs without transition looks much cleaner and make program really faster.

Anonymous said...

Oh I am wrong in my statement

Even so, all skaters should not imitate Rippon's or Abbot's style.