Monday, November 1

More Skate Canada: Judging the Men, Part One

Patrick Chan vs. Nobunari Oda vs. Adam Rippon. You know how I like to mock-judge competitions.

I will start by saying two things, and this is before I do my own scoring. I remember last year in the free skate at Worlds that I was really surprised with my end result for Chan's score, as I expected it to be much lower. Second, the IJS rules have been modified a bit, switching up the positive/negative grade of execution for jumps. The quad toe receives the +/-1.0 increments that the triples received last year, and now the triples start out at +/-0.7.

Am I going to shock myself and actually agree with the outcome? If that is the case, am I going to agree with the set GOEs and point values for all of the elements in the newest rules? Let's see, starting with the short program.

All of the math and fun little details, below the break

Adam Rippon USA
3A 1
3F+3T 1 (most judges went for +2 here)
FCSp3 1 (would have been +2 probably had he held the first position longer)
3Lz 1 (yes, a bit of a pause in the steps.. if he can find a way to go directly into the jump, there's no reason he shouldn't get a +3 eventually)
CSSp4 1 (great positions, but the speed could improve)
SlSt3 1 (great amount of content, but the beginning looked a bit heavy)
CCoSp4 1 (again, great positions.. he'll be set if he can increase the speed just a bit)
TES= 40.90

SS 7.50
TR 7.00
PE 7.50
CH 7.25
IN 7.50
PCS= 36.75
I'd have all of the components pretty close together, as all of the aspects of the program were very good but not yet on that top level.

My total score= 77.65
The judges had it at 77.53, so there's clearly no complaining here. ;-)

Patrick Chan CAN
Landing of the triple Axel
4T -3 (all the way around. there's also a slight break in steps here, although that didn't matter this time)
3A (under-rotated) -3 (a bit lucky here to not receive any under-rotation, as I try to show in the screen shot to the left)
CCoSp4 1 (good speed, good positions, but a bit of a travel on the last scratch position-- two judges gave +3 here, while only two agreed with +1)
3F+3T 1 (+2 from a lot of the judges, even though he had a slight pause between the two jumps and no flow following the combo)
FSSp4 1 (good centering and positions, but not amazing)
CCSp3 1 (strong positions for the camel, but on the slow side)
SlSt2 -3 (I know that the footwork sequence, when clean, will be amazing, but the fall wasn't a 'go down and get up right away' fall, he took about five seconds to get back into the element, and there really wasn't anything there afterwards. -1 just seems over-the-top generous to me)
There were a few judges that really liked Patrick on this panel as far as the elements went. Three of the four who gave him only a -1 for the fall in footwork also gave him a +2 for the flying sit, and those same four all gave him +2 for the triple flip/triple toe, along with one other judge. I'm guessing those scores might have been a bit of a boost because of the other errors, but who knows..
TES= 32.60 (the judges have him at 36.73, and I'd blame the callers here for not under-rotating the Axel. There's 2.5 points difference there)

SS 8.25
TR 8.00
PE 7.25
CH 8.00
IN 7.50
PCS= 39.00
I have no problem admitting that Patrick has gorgeous skating skills and he totally loads the program with transitions, but I think my problem is that I even noted in my live blog BEFORE the fall on the footwork that the program was not really exciting or engaging the crowd, and he looked shocked both after the two jump falls and especially after the footwork fall. He didn't completely give up, but there was no spark there

Deductions= -3.00 (all falls)

My total score= 68.60
Interestingly enough, I was right in line with the overall PCS score, as I went higher on the transitions and the judges went higher on the performance/execution and interpretation. The difference was in the 4 points on the technical score. That, at this point, would give Adam Rippon a lead of 9.05.

Nobunari Oda JPN
3A 2 (not much into the jump, but an absolutely gorgeous landing and edge work directly out of the jump)
3F+3T 2 (again, steps both into and out of the jump, and both were great and had deep, beautiful run-outs. Honestly a little tempted to give +3 here)
FCSp4 0 (scored high by the judges. traveling in the beginning, and the positions were alright but the speed was also average)
3Lz 1 (nice footwork leading in, but again a slight pause before the jump. good, not great like the other two jump elements)
CCoSp4 1 (excellent on the first half, but the change foot resulted in another traveling spin)
SlSt3 1 (good again here, but not the best of flow and he looked down and focused the entire time rather than just letting it happen)
CSSp4 0 (maybe a bit harsh, but the first sit spin was all over the place on the ice)
TES= 42.00
I think the judges were a bit generous on his spins, giving him a 43.37 for elements.

SS 8.00
TR 7.25
PE 7.50
CH 7.50
IN 6.75
PCS= 37.00
Just a point below the judges here. I comment all the time about how he is so stone-faced and really focused, and that really reflected on his interpretation mark for me. The music is dynamic, and he somewhat skates right through it. The transitions were strong around the jumps, but he could add more in-between and leading into the other elements.

My total score= 79.00

So I'd have it 1) Oda 79.00, 2) Rippon 77.65, 3) Chan 68.60. This doesn't include Kevin Reynolds, who was 2nd after the actual short program. I might go back later and score him out of curiosity to see where he'd fit in.

Long program later. These numbers hurt my head.


Anonymous said...

Thanks for this.

I went through the SP protocols again, and noticed that the only skater who got a ur call on his 3A, was Grant Hochstein.

Did he, like Chan, have a forward landing on it, too? Or was it even worse?

Tony said...

He had a pretty similar fall to that of Chan, and from what I can see, their cheats look to be about the same. Hochstein's occurred right in front of the judges, however.

Anonymous said...

I see.

Do you think Chan will come up with a last-min excuse to skip Cup of Russia which is later this month?

Tony said...

I doubt it. Abbott and Verner are the only real serious threats to Patrick there, and we know Tomas isn't exactly the model of consistency..

Anonymous said...

I agree with what you say about Tomas, but - theoretically - he's capable of landing a quad combo in SP alone.

Besides, he's with a different coach now, I honestly don't know what to expect from Tomas at this point.

Abbott has the best lp of all men this season, imo. And I thought i'd never say that about a program choreographed by Wilson. Never say never, I guess.

I'm not sure, but I thought since ms. Lynch won't be a caller at the CoR, Chan might get your version of assessment, which is bad for his reputation.

Anonymous said...

Illuminating. You should do this for every judging controversy. :)

What shocked me most wasn't necessarily Chan's PCS, but the generous GoE scores he got. Judges giving him -1 on that jarring, disruptive fall during the footwork sequence? In the LP, a lot of his jumps were not landed beautifully, and he still got positive GoE for them. (I would have gone 0, probably.) Very surprising.

I don't deny Chan was the best in the field there, but I would like him to have to earn his place sometime.

Tony said...

Agree that I have no idea what side of Verner will show up for competition this year. Even if it isn't his best outing, I hope he has at least improved upon not letting one mistake distract the rest of the program.

Anonymous311-- it's fun but it gets so tiring by the time all is said and done!

I can see where those particular judges thought (or liked to think) he had amazing quality in the footwork up until that point, but I thought the first half of the sequence was relatively simple compared to the part where took the fall. And it definitely screwed up the rest of the pattern, and he hardly offered anything after getting up from the fall. Definitely still a -3 for me. You'll see in my free skate scores that I tended to agree with you on the 0's :-)

Anonymous said...

Tony said "but I think my problem is that I even noted in my live blog BEFORE the fall on the footwork that the program was not really exciting or engaging the crowd, and he looked shocked both after the two jump falls and especially after the footwork fall. He didn't completely give up, but there was no spark there"

So, how can you give Chan 7,25 in PE, 8 (!) in CH and 7,50 in IN?
It takes to dare to give a 6 when it's necessary!
At least the fall during the step sequence clearly interrupted the performance.
With 6.0 system Chan couldn't possibly win.

Tony said...

The choreography and interpretation to the music were still alright, I thought.

I noted that he didn't completely give up after the mistakes. This rarely happens with top skaters, but down the ranks you will see that a mistake or two happens and a skater gives NO effort towards the rest of their program. Chan, even with mistakes, still has complex and continuous choreography. His performance and execution will no doubt be in the 8.50-9.00 range if he skates clean, and and I feel that his interpretation (as I've mentioned elsewhere) is the worst part of his components on a good day. Lucky for him, even with the mistakes, the interpretation really doesn't vary that much.

Not to drag someone in who has played no part of this mess, but if anyone was overmarked on CH/IN marks in this field, it was definitely Artur Gachinski. Most of the time spent looking at the ice, a lot of choreography that was just in arm movements, the landing of many of his jumps with a flashy arm movement, etc. Looking at the short program, I'd have pretty much every skater ahead of him on the CH mark aside from Nanri, yet Hochstein, Bacchini, and Ten all scored lower.